player: /hyperpost/š/š/gyuri/
activity: do/web/snarf/
server: chat.collectivesensecommons.org/
path: agora/pl/ip5iwzfqwjy6m8csbmn7yxsbio/index.html
source:https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/pl/ip5iwzfqwjy6m8csbmn7yxsbio
.slogan.s
- Ted Nelson wrote Computer Lib
- Web Content Liberation: Structure and Autnonomous Lifelong Personal-First Collaboration
peterkaminski
Important CSC Mattermost Announcement
(This post is adapted from an announcement in the Biweekly Plex Dispatch, which is undergoing a similar transition.)
@all, it has been my honor and pleasure to run CSC Mattermost, this inter-community chat server, since November 2020.
The time has come for me to move on to other things. My plan for CSC Mattermost is to start to notify folks, export channel data, and to shut it down by early October 2025.
CSC Mattermost has had a good run. It's helped connect people, form groups, and provide community scaffolding. Thank you so much for being part of it!
But it hasn't developed the kind of larger-scale inter-community engagement I was hoping for. Keeping the server running, making sure the software and the OS are up-to-date, and stepping in once in a while to solve problems is not a huge deal, but itās not zero, either. Itās feeling like time to put this loads down and to pick up others.
Also, for chat, the landscape has changed. In the intervening years since 2020, along with the OGM mailing list that existed then and now, I feel like some additional alternatives have gotten real: Signal, Discord, Mastodon, Bluesky, Matrix. Itās not like folks donāt have places that fit their needs, probably better than CSC Mattermost.
You know the saying, āBetter to light a candle than to curse the darkness?ā Iām glad I lit this candle, and it has been a beacon in some amount of darkness. But this candle is not in the right spot to help the most people any more. These days, I need to find better ways to help.
The fact that it stings a little to think about shutting it down tells me it mattered. Maybe thatās how you know when something was worth trying.
What's coming next:
- Iāll make sure all the non-private channels get exported, and private channels where I can do so while respecting privacy considerations.
- I'll keep posting here in Town Square as we get closer to shutdown.
- Email me with any other questions or concerns: kaminski@istori.com.
Chat/messaging services where youāll still be able to find me: Signal, Discord, Matrix, Bluesky, Mastodon. And maybe Nostr. :)
If youāre interested in joining a Zoom call in the next month to chat with friends and discuss next steps, add your name here:
Stay Informed: Plex & CSC Mattermost Zoom Call
Iāll email you a scheduling poll and date/time of call(s).
I can imagine an option for a group of community stewards to rally and help me keep the lights on. But Iām not holding my breath on that, and Iām genuinely at peace with wrapping it up. Iām also pretty sure any effort to reinvigorate CSC Mattermost would be better spent adopting community on Signal, Discord, or Matrix. Let me know if youād like to talk more about that.
For OGM, there is a discussion on the OGM mailing list under the subject line, "An OGM chat service?" -- follow and comment there if you'd be interested in another OGM chat service.
Dear CSC Mattermost members: Thank you SO much for your participation and support along the way. Itās meant a lot to me, and I truly appreciate it.
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Yesterday
gyuriUpdate your status
Warm Greetings to yall @MatterMost. I'm glad I had a notification about the plans to discontinue MatterMost. The las time I was getting ready to be ready to launch in "Interest Based semi autononomous social network" around Google+ Google+ was shut down. Learned from that lesson I resolved to work towards an Interest Based InterPersonal Social Network that would be permanent, ever green, Atunomous, unstoppable, where each participants would own, permanently their own contributions. The name for it remained: it HyperPost. But it would even work without being tied to the Domain Name System itself.I'll be posting updates for those who would be interested to join HyperPost's very own launch community. There will be no sogn ups no signins just unstoppable conversations that scale reach trust and synthesis with permanence and full provenance. Local-first, personal first interpersonal autonomous spaces.
HyperPost aims to play nicely wit existing systems. So the latest experiment would have anybody with a hypothesis account to be able to join the network without invites. The smae should be done for anyone with a mattermost account would be able to join. Needs a bit of work, nut can be done.
@jackpark The idea of a Launch Commnity is comming from here https://hypothes.is/users/indyweb?q=launch+community
In fact our vision is an extension of the original Open HyperDocument System, but extending the concept to Autnonomous Open Universal Hyper Document Systems based on the insight that Computer Supported Learning Works itself is multiplayer collaborative so that it will be one system that at long last abolishes the divide between computer support for Personal Work and Collaborative Work.
jackpark
That's 2023. I wonder where it went!
gyuri
There was a big nap in the Decentralized Web space. Where many of the pioneers have folded. The technology did not quite reached the level required. or rather it was a key piece (I am talking about IPFS) but on its own it's not quiete capable to deliver what is required. So many years of explorations, experiments were needed to get the IT right at last.
gyuriUpdate your status
Hopefully this time it will be different. Weill see soon.
jackpark
In the face of losing this venue, we still must remain connected. There remain many important players in this space; in my view, it would be difficult for any single source to offer the beAllendAll app, but each has an app to contribute; we must federate. The planet is burning.
jackpark
One of the annotations on that page appears to be a fork of it: https://hypothes.is/a/wdePFg7HEe61SI_D3OfrAg
Hypothes.isAnnotation by indyweb@hypothes.is on eekim.com: OHS Launch Community: Members
The limited cardinality of both annotations and contributors suggests that it did not gain traction. In my experience, and I think this points to something needing study, a number of groups in which I participated on hypothes.is eventually die out. A favorite one, I think led by Jon Udell, was a chat-fest on annotations about Doug's work. That is, we didn't just annotate, but used the UI to gab about our annotations.
Personally, I saw that as an opportunity to fork their UI code and add an IBIS chat app to it (never did, but still interesting.
jackpark
"Universal Hyperdocument System". What does that even mean?
Today
gyuri
Adding the qualifier Universal to the term Hyper Document system marks my intent to re--conceptualize re-imagine the concept of Hyper Document as an analogue of the concept of "Universal Machine" and create and "Virtualize it" as we did with Universal Machines in the form of creating a virtual Machine in/for the medium of Hyper documents themselves on the Web as a kernel level document based operating system.. That is to say create a cascading scaling info-organizational communication and infrastructure for documents that are able to to provide descriptions for themselves such that they are amenable to the pun to be interpreted to exhibit the expected behavior interactions affordances and info organizational capabilities that are orchestrated, implicated operationalized via such constructs.
Were we to succeed in bootstrapping such a system, the task of creating ibis systems and anything designed for human collaboration would make them interplay with other so orchestrated virtualized meta-document systems, like say hypothesis they would be able to share documents that would be owned and controlled by their creators and amenable for private, evergreen collaboration with verifiable full provenance ab initio were we to use appropriate storage and capability sharing mechanissms. Curently I have developed the beginning of such a system using IPFS and Peergos. Tryin to do it in such a way that alternative decntralized systems designed for permanence and user autonomy could be made use of As the Peergos byline say: Control yOur Data, control yOur Destiny
gyuriUpdate your status
regarding "the limited carnality of annotations" may be changed if, say threaded conversations like this could be posted by their authors with impkicate explorable context by the authors themselves as conversations, which in turn would be amenable to annottions. so that annotations become a part of ongoing autnomous conversations. So when one engages with content so constellated would turn up in hypothesis searches and the annotations themselves would be part of interpersonal conversational context. Yes very much IBIS or IdeaLoom. xcept People would not flock to services like that but such sevices would work/run on their own devices ready to connect with others and collaborate in their mutually controlled self-named styled autonomous evergreen spaces
gyuriUpdate your status
https://idealoom.conversence.com/hyperknowledge/posts/local%3ASPost%2F3522?source=share
The concept is still in an early inception/experimentation phase. Ideas are scatered on annotation margins awaiting systematic review and synthesis https://hypothes.is/users/gyuri?q=universal+hyperdocument